total time: 7.0 minutes
total words: 1113
[Anna Callahan]: Great. So first, we're going to talk about how COVID-19 is affecting folks in jails. And I would love it if you would go ahead and just introduce yourself and how you are sort of related to this topic.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sure. My name is Caroline Bays. I am the president of the Board of Progressive Massachusetts, and I've been working on criminal justice issues for a while now. And I, oh, by the way, I'm also a town Councilor in Watertown, so I could relate to what Zach was saying. But I have been visiting, as a result of my activism, I've been visiting a young man who's been in solitary confinement for three years, because he doesn't have any family nearby and has nobody else to visit him. So I've been learning what it's like, really, almost as a family member. for somebody who's inside prison, and especially inside solitary confinement.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[Anna Callahan]: Yeah. Before we talk a little bit more generally about what's happening, well, you tell me, do you want to talk generally about what's happening in Massachusetts prisons? Or do you want to go, should we just go straight at what's happening related to COVID-19? I think let's start with COVID-19 and why it's so dangerous for them at this moment. And then we can broaden it up a little bit after this.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, right now, I've actually been talking to him. We've been emailing daily. Right now, basically, paranoia and fear is running rampant through his tier. They're basically helpless. They cannot leave their cells without touching, you know, people, things. They have to be, I mean, to the point where they actually, every time they leave their cell, even just for a shower, they're strip searched. So they have no way of protecting their own bodies from the correctional officers. In addition, the correctional officers are from what he's saying, not taking it as seriously as they would like them to. Just as of a few days ago, they were finally given masks, you know, face masks, the correctional officers, but none of them are wearing it. They're putting them, you know, I'm thinking of all these doctors who were killing for masks and they're just putting them around their necks and joking about it and joking that they're gonna breathe on, that they'll joke like they'll cough. act like they're sick and say that they're going to breathe on the prisoners. And it's just very scary for the prisoners. They're buying as much soap as they can. They don't have any hand sanitizer.
[Anna Callahan]: Do you mean that the prisoners themselves are spending their own money to buy soap?
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yes. Oh, that's true of everything. That's the broader issue. They have to spend their own money to buy toothpaste, toothbrushes, If they want decent food, they have to spend their own money.
[Anna Callahan]: So before you go on, I do want to just mention, um, we have someone who's commented on YouTube saying, um, they're hoping to hear about what correctional facilities are doing to prevent the spread of COVID-19. Um, and so it sounds like one thing that they're doing is they have, they seem to have obtained masks, which, you know, it's so incredibly important for our, like there's a shortage of masks. And it's so important for our hospital staff and doctors to be able to have the masks that they need. And of course, it's important for correctional facilities to have masks as well, but not if they're just wearing them around their neck and using it to, you know, taunt The inmates.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes. And they also said they were cleaning, like they were cleaning the showers. They were doing things like that. But as far as he could tell, the showers didn't look any cleaner. They didn't have, he actually saw the cleaning supplies that they said there was going to be special cleaning supplies, but he's seen those cleaning supplies a million times. It's the same cleaning supplies. So they haven't, they're saying that they're doing things. The one thing that they have done that is the best thing they have done is, um, Unfortunately, he's in solitary confinement. He does get one visit a week. Understandably, everybody understands they've had to cancel all visitors. However, they are in lieu of that giving them two extra phone calls a day, and they're giving them a free phone call. And just that little step I wish that the CEOs, I wish that actually the people who run the prisons could understand that little step goes a long way. It is so appreciated by Andrew, the young man I visit, and all of the other prisoners who have to endure being separated from their families.
[Anna Callahan]: Yeah. So I'm going to jump in. I can't resist jumping in here because I did spend two nights in jail in 2000 when I was illegally arrested for protesting. There were about 71 of us. We were illegally strip searched. The women only were strip searched twice during our time there, and there was a giant lawsuit afterwards and all that. But I will say that this was in Los Angeles, and I will say that we were We were arrested and literally not allowed to wash in any way. And the police who had arrested us had us leaning up against, like, pushing us against a chain link fence that was, like, covered in grease and oil because it was right directly underneath a freeway. And so our hands and our bodies were just, they had all this black grease all over them. And we were not, there was no, ability for us to wash anything at all for like, you know, 30 hours or more. So, And the whole taunting thing, people may not realize how much psychological games are played to inmates by correctional staff. So the idea that correctional staff are joking about purposefully getting inmates sick with COVID-19, that is, you know when this is real psychological I mean, it's terrible. That should not be legal for them to do that. And then I want to, for a second, before we go on, to talk a little bit about how dangerous it is to be in these close quarters with people. I mean, we're talking about social distancing, and people who are incarcerated do not have that ability. So can you talk a little bit just about how dangerous it is and if there have been any outbreaks inside of any correctional facilities?
[SPEAKER_02]: There has been an outbreak in a correctional facility. Quite a number of people have gotten sick. I'm not up to date on today on what the numbers are, but it was 17 the last I'd looked. I did hear from Chris Fallon, who said that they have lots of protocol and that he was going to keep people from being sick, but the protocol obviously is not being followed. and people are getting sick, and the main problem is, and as you must have experienced and felt yourself, is just a pure helplessness. We can control where our bodies go. We can control what is gonna happen to us, but they are totally at the whim of other human beings. They have zero control over this. So the psychological sort of fear even without another human being actively trying to terrorize you, the psychological fear is there already and the helplessness and the not being able to, you know, protect yourself is just, you know, it's heartbreaking to listen, well, I'm reading right now what Andrew has to say about the experience of being inside there right now.
[Anna Callahan]: We have another question here. Are there ways for people to get involved and support the incarcerated population during this time of crisis? Canteen money for soap, masks, letters. I am sympathetic to those who are in prisons.
[SPEAKER_02]: So letters are always appreciated. There's several different, you can go online and find, you know, write a prisoner. There's a couple of websites that can match you up with prisoners. I can't tell you how much letters are appreciated. Once you've established a relationship, it's a little difficult to get money to somebody, but once you've established a relationship, they can describe how you need to, how you can get some money for people. There's no donation for getting things. It's actually quite difficult to get anything to a friend or relative. And you can't buy it for them. They have to buy it themselves. And it's only prison-approved things from the canteen that are allowed to go into their cells. You can't really buy them anything.
[Anna Callahan]: And before we go on to the next questions, we do have another question. You're saying that letters and emails are really helpful. Is there a particular easy way? I know that a lot of people who are involved in Mamas Mutually Medford and Somerville are, people want to help. People want to be able to do something. What's an easy way for people to get involved that way?
[SPEAKER_02]: The best way to do that, I think, writeaprisoner.com, I think is the name of it. Look that up. And there's lots of prisoners who really are begging for people to write them because they don't have that much contact with the outside. So I would do that. That's probably the best way. There are also a whole bunch of different groups who are working on different issues. I'm a member of both Massachusetts Against Solitary Confinement. I'm also a member of a group called Concerned Elders. We actually go in and visit people in prisons. If you want to give people my contact information, especially if they're interested in visiting people, that is one of the things that are harder for people to do. really makes a big difference in their lives.
[Anna Callahan]: And I assume we can't do that right now.
[SPEAKER_02]: What?
[Anna Callahan]: Oh, no. Yeah, there's no visiting, right.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, no visiting right now. However, writing the letters is allowed, so that can be done. But if anyone's interested in getting involved, I'm happy to point them in the right direction for whatever thing they might want to do. There's also different groups who go in and educate prisoners so they can go in and actually they could become part of a group that might teach people how to read or teach people how to write. you know, there's also groups like that. So there's a long list of groups, and I'm like, the names are escaping me right now, but I would be more than happy to, you know, forward all that information to anyone who's interested.
[Anna Callahan]: Wonderful. There is another question, which is, do you know what sort of medical care is available in case someone in prison does get the virus?
[SPEAKER_02]: There is medical care available. However, from what I've seen, and I don't know if they've improved it at all, it's been very, very lax. They do have nurses, but they have way too few doctors and nurses per prisoner to really deal with. If there's a huge outbreak, there's going to be a big problem because they just don't have the bandwidth. There's too few doctors and nurses employed by the system to deal with a huge outbreak in the Massachusetts state prisons.
[Anna Callahan]: Right. So, you know, I've heard, I know that a couple of our city councilors here in Somerville, Ben, you and Kevin and JT Scott, and as well as other people have been talking about releasing certain portions of the prison population. Certainly the the ones who are oh, what's I'm forgetting the term I I sometimes call it debtors prison, right? It's people who their pretrial detention. Is that right? So they they haven't been convicted of anything and they just can't pay bail. And so they're held in jail.
[SPEAKER_02]: Is that yes So so despite the fact that they're supposed to actually not not not force people to to pay a bail that's unaffordable, they are still requiring bails that are unaffordable to people. So there's a lot of people in jail, the vast majority, I think it's the majority of the prisoners, jails, we've been talking about prisons, now there's jails, have not actually been convicted of a crime.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is so insane. It's really mind-blowing to me that this is true in America today.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so Rachel Rollins, has been working on that. She kind of took the lead. I know that Peter Katushin and D.A. Ryan are looking at who they can release, but it's taking them a while. And also, I think Andrea Harrington is another D.A. out in the western part of the state who's also looking into trying to get people released who could possibly, you know, be released. And this includes not just the people who are held on bail and are pre-sentencing. There's There's high-risk people with illnesses who should definitely come home. There are geriatric prisoners who should come home. There are parole-eligible people should be coming home. And anyone who's really close to being released should just be released.
[Anna Callahan]: Is there some way that we can pressure people? Is there a way that folks listening here can help with that?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, well, first of all, the DAs are, you know, they're elected, so certainly, as a constituent, please contact every DA, especially the ones who are not acting on this, please contact them. And also, contact your state reps and your senators, because Lindsay Sabadoza has filed a bill, You can write this down, HD 4963 to decarcerate prisoners. And that is something that people can do. Try to get your legislators to support that bill.
[Anna Callahan]: Great. Do you want to talk a little bit about, we've talked a lot about COVID-19 and how it's affecting people. Can you talk to us a little bit about what you were working on before COVID-19 and about solitary confinement?
[SPEAKER_02]: Sure, yes. I'm part of a group, like I said before, Massachusetts Against Solitary Confinement, which people could also join. We'd love to have more members trying to bring attention to the fact that Massachusetts has one of the largest solitary confinement populations. in terms of the proportion of prisoners we have, inmates we have in Massachusetts. The last time for the last year where they were really taking a sample, out of 9,000 prisoners, approximately 3,000, a little bit less than 3,000 had been put in solitary confinement in Massachusetts. And they keep them in there for up to 10 years.
[SPEAKER_00]: How is that legal?
[SPEAKER_02]: It's legal in Massachusetts, and it's still legal even after the Criminal Justice Act was passed. So I have a friend who's visiting someone who was sentenced for 10 years. I'm visiting someone who was sentenced to four years. And I mean, the young man I'm visiting was sentenced to 20 years in prison. He was sentenced to four years in solitary confinement in an incident where nobody was hurt. so where nobody was even injured. So it was an altercation with a correctional officer, but it was a minor altercation.
[Anna Callahan]: And by the way, I think you once mentioned to me the limit. Isn't there a limit under the sort of world human rights? Who has a limit that's... Oh, 15 days.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, according to the... yeah, the UN, 15 days is torture. And 15 days is nothing, they don't even, you know, everybody gets 15 days. And most people spend two, three months, and then lots of people, and for the place where the young man I visit, it's a DDU, It's specifically, it's almost a separate prison that's specifically just for long-term solitary confinement. Everybody has over a year.
[Anna Callahan]: That is totally insane. Yes. That's horrible. Horrifying.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because they've all spent at least six months waiting in solitary confinement for a sentence, and then they're sentenced to at least six months. Usually they're sentenced to about a year or two years.
[Anna Callahan]: Wow. Well, let's end on a slightly better note than that one. Do you have any better notes than that one in terms of the incarcerated population? Is there anything on the horizon? Are there any bills that you think are happening right now, maybe at the state level, that have a good chance of passing? Or Rachel Rollins, she seems pretty good. And maybe through our elected DAs, we're going to be having some positive movement.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm hoping through DAs like Rachel Rollins, like Andrea Harrington, there is going to be some movement, and they are going to stop incarcerating so many people in our population who do not need to be incarcerated. I actually did court watch, and I'm starting to see the change, and I'm starting to see the decarceration of our population, which is the hopeful you know, thing that's happening on our, that's the whole full. You know, if they're not in prison in the first place, then we don't have to worry about the conditions in prison.
[Anna Callahan]: That's exactly right. That is right. Yeah. Thank you so much for coming on today and for talking about this incredibly important, I think, too often overlooked topic. And also for all the work that you do. Oh, thank you. It's really important. I'm going to actually go on. I'm going to see if I can get some mamas folks to some mama's folks to start writing letters. We have one final comment. As the mother of a previously incarcerated, I agree with Caroline when she says the medical care is lax. Inmates are often not taken seriously and there are longer than average wait times for care. Yeah. So medical care in prisons, important topic, especially now. But yeah, we're going to see if we can get some folks to write some letters. And thank you so much. Great to talk to you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
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